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Has anyone here managed to stay friends with their exWS after divorce? Like actual friends who hang out, go out, text funny things, etc., not just friendly/cordial co-parents?

WS seems to think this is possible. I feel like he is delusional, but maybe I'm wrong? Not saying I could do it even if others can, but I'm wondering if you or anyone you know of has managed to build true friendship after infidelity and divorce?

Not sure how, but yesterday I told SAfWH that we started out as friends and I'd be friends with him after a divorce, since we share decades of life experiences, but that I really want to stop living this lie of a M. I want him to find another place to live, so I wouldn't have to keep going through the painful things he does to my daily life due to his solo orientation. Whenever I say I want to get out of this IHS, he never has an affirmative reply, since it works for him to live in this limbo and discontent. He isn't bothered by the loss of what a M should have been.

I think the answer to your question is that some people can be better as a casual friend than they can be as an intimate partner. In other words, if you don't ask for anything they cannot give you (like keeping a vow!) all will seem to go great. Just don't ask for anything that is outside of their comfort zone.

[This message edited by Superesse at 1:44 PM, Sunday, July 13th]

My WW and I have both expressed the desire to not hate each other, because we are sure there will be future events with our kids where we encounter each other. I think she likes the idea of remaining friends, but for me, I'll be social with her, but I have no desire to actually be "friends" with her. The wound is pretty deep and I'd just as noon keep my contact with her to an absolute bare minimum.

I feel like he is delusional,

Yeah... good word for it, delusional. Having an affair... delusional. Pattern there?

I get along with my exww much better now than when we were married, but we're far from besties.

Not in my case. It takes two people to make a friendship, and while my XWH initially made lots of statements about wanting to be friends, his behavior didn’t back it up. In the six months since I filed for divorce, XWH has been completely estranged from our kids and has had virtually no contact with me. He has blamed me for his affairs, shown no remorse or ability to look inward, and approached the divorce (and everything else) with concern only for himself. Instead of working to repair the estrangement with his kids, or getting to know himself in a new an authentic way, he has moved onto yet another girlfriend and appears to be pouring his energy into that relationship.

With all the pain that comes with betrayal, I don’t know how quickly or whether I would have been able to have some sort of friendship. Until XWH’s behavior shows him to be someone who is trying to become worthy of my friendship, however, he won’t have that chance. I don’t think his statements about wanting to be friends were a genuine reflection of the decades of history we share but instead his weak attempt at saying the "right things" so that he could tell himself that he was a really good guy even during the divorce.

I understand that a WS might want to be friends with the BS. I don't understand why the BS would you want to be friends with the person who betrayed them.

Since friendship takes 2, I don't see true friendship for a long time after the D, if ever.

Besides, minimizing contact minimizes the risk of new hurts from the same person.

Slightly adjacent to the main question: in cases where R has been attempted but never felt right for the BS, yet the WS has carried on thinking all is acceptable, the BS may decide to pull the plug many years after the offending infidelity is "history" to the WS. Those are usually years of shared pain and both good and not-good life experiences. To me, that's a huge loss to consider in deciding the betrayal was the end of all contact with the WS, unless to continue contact is to continue the hurts and with that I agree with Sisoon.

I think if I manage to get out of this situation I'll have the XWH living across the street on his property so I'd have to try to get along with him as a neighbor LOL. And we are supposed to at least try to get along with our neighbor. Any suggestions how to handle that one?

I do wonder if my feelings toward him will change once we've legally separated and maybe change some more after kid goes off to college and I can be truly independent of him.

Still, I've never managed to stay friends with people who have cheated on someone, and the memories of him over the past 10 years are such a source of pain, I can't see how I would ever be truly at ease with him again. I think he's grasping at ways to keep me more present in his life because he still feels love for me. It hurts him to know that I don't want him in my life, but I can't be responsible for his feelings.

Why would you want to? Seriously, if a friend stabbed you in the back, would you want to stay friends? So the person that actually made vows to not cheat, to love and honor you does it and the same healthy boundaries dont apply? Does that even make sense to you? You should, instead, be asking yourself why you want to be friends with someone who doesn't respect you and actively stabbed you in the back. Not if its possible to still be friends.

I don't know your story, but I've been here for over 10 years, and every so often, someone comes along with horrible boundaries and lacking self love and asks the same question. My advice always mirrors this. Focus on you and surrounding yourself with people that lift you up, and cut loose the ones who only drag you down. JMHO.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 7:49 AM, Monday, July 14th]

In all fairness, NoThanksForTheMemories said that they thought their WS was delusional and haven't indicated that they are considering this at all.

For me, it's a hard no thank you. I would have considered it in the past with boyfriends before infidelity. I probably would have suggested waiting several months without contact first to adjust. Also, I would have said it would be ok to be around the same social circle even if I would have avoided it like the plague. Maybe that would be me trying to play it cool.

After infidelity, I tightened up every social interaction and what I would call a friend. That's not what I call a friend and not anyone I would make an effort to spend time with. We would need to have stronger values in common. Still, no judgement on others who feel differently.

Edit: Oh, I do think it's a bit delusional for a WS to ask this. I would interpret it as either them asking 1) if you're going to make things easy on them and absolve them of responsibility or 2) if you are going to be there for them in the same positive way after giving you one of the most painful experiences of your life.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 2:23 PM, Tuesday, July 15th]

I wouldn't personally choose this path, but I find it perplexing when reconciled individuals state they can't see why someone would want to remain friends with a betrayer. Surely, if you've reconciled your own marriage after infidelity, you understand the complex motivations that lead people to maintain connections? It seems the same reasons people generally reconcile could apply, with the key difference being that you are no longer romantically tied to them and can fulfill your romantic and sexual needs elsewhere.

I'm not necessarily advocating for this, but I can theoretically envision scenarios where such a dynamic could work. For instance, imagine someone who still deeply loves their partner but simply cannot overcome the physical disgust after a betrayal. This situation would present two clear choices: either remain married and entirely forgo sexual intimacy, or divorce to pursue those desires elsewhere. A minor exception might exist in the realm of open or polyamorous relationships. In the core example, it could make perfect sense to divorce but remain friends, if both parties genuinely desired that arrangement.

To suggest one cannot see why a betrayed spouse would befriend someone who has betrayed them seems to contradict the very concept of reconciliation. That is to say, if you were to rephrase that to: "I cannot see why a betrayed spouse would reconcile with someone who has betrayed them," perhaps you'll see my point.

All this is to say, while I wouldn't personally recommend this path, I can't find a logical reason to dismiss it if it's genuinely what both individuals want. For example, a close friend's mother has remained close friends with her cheating ex-husband. They still meet several times a week for coffee and maintain a significant presence in each other's lives. This is despite the fact that he is still with his affair partner and has even ruined a further marriage of mutual friends by cheating on his affair partner. While that wouldn't be my choice, for her, after being together since they were 16, she simply didn't want him in her bed anymore, but wasn't willing to completely excise him from her life.

That being said, every time I see her, she brings up the betrayal, and it's been years. So maybe it would have been better if she had just moved on.

I think future relationships could make this very difficult. If I were with a new woman and she was hang out buddies with the man she used to be married to and shared life with, I'd not be ok with it and I'd end the relationship. I'd fully expect any future partner to feel the same way about me hanging out with my ex, especially given they'd know she had cheated on me and that led to the end of the marriage, so you already know one member of this friendship has a history of violating relationships.

Beiing friends with him would tell him and everyone who saw the destruction of marriage and family after 35 years, that it really couldnt have been all that bad if you can be friends.

I would not be friends with a cheater, liar and thief just because we shared a history.

DRSOOLERS,

That a fair point. I am reconciled, and as such, I do believe I have accepted things about my WS's past behavior. If it turns out I can't accept it enough to stay married or new actions are revealed or occur, I will divorce and end the friendship too.

Like actual friends who hang out, go out, text funny things, etc., not just friendly/cordial co-parents?

No. I can not see a reason to feel good about that or want to do that. If I'm that physically icked about their sexual actions, being around them for coffee would still give me that ick. Again, I don't judge anyone who feels differently. Also, as the father of my children, my WS could probably count on me in a very limited set of situations to do things for them if we divorce.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 2:41 PM, Tuesday, July 15th]

This is a deeply personal choice. In limited circumstances I possibly could interact with an ex spouse. With a repentant wayward ex spouse potentially in a friendly manner with appropriate boundaries, but I would need to see evidence they were dealing with their integrity issues.
And I would only do so transparently with respect to a current partner or spouse.

As an example, a partner might interact with their wexw to cordially drop off or pick up a grandchild. He would tell me he is going there, the purpose etc. and when (in her case not if) she tells him he is "looking good" (because she does not respect relationship status and would likely "hit that" if she could get something out of it), he would tell me and not be alone in her house with her. He might decide it is not "safe" to interact with her (no more grandchildren exchanges) because she is still a serial cheater who lies and manipulates (continued integrity issues).

I wish I could say this sort of thing never happens. But, without clear evidence of positive change, I would expect the same behaviors to continue.

I can’t risk doing business with people who have integrity issues, and I would expect they would treat me as a friend the same as they did while in the marriage/relationship: lies, self interest, lack of empathy, willingness to expose others to harm.

Everyone’s mileage with this may vary.

** Member to Member **

I find it perplexing when reconciled individuals state they can't see why someone would want to remain friends with a betrayer.

Obviously I have trouble understanding seeing a conflict between R and not wanting to be friends with a betrayer.

I have R'ed with a former betrayer. I have commuted the sentence for her betrayal, not pardoned it. But W's betrayal is in the past, longer ago than many relationships last. If she had continued to betray, I would have as little as possible to do with her - and I'd classify not changing from cheater to good partner as a continued betrayal.

If you didn't understand why one can R and not want to befriend a betrayer, how come you didn't ask R'd folks who expressed that opinion why/how they came to their position?

Also, when I wrote that I can't see being a friend of a person who betrayed me, I really meant, 'Don't do it. If you want to do it, there's probably something unhealthy going on with you.' Is that what YOU mean when you write 'I find it perplexing....'?

IMO,
respecting R,
accepting being a BS really doesn't say anything about the BS,
recognizing that many WSes are not inherently more evil than anyone else,
recognizing that some WSes redeem themselves,
recognizing that people, not even BSes, are not perfect,
accepting that logic is only one tool of many (and by no means a powerful tool) necessary for recovering from being betrayed and for life itself ...

accepting all of these ideas - and more - is healing.

My XWS is pretty much a poster child for an X— he’s been repentant, generous, kind and respectful. We still own a piece of property together and one joint account that we are unraveling now, so we have to be in touch once or twice a year. This year, 8 years on, we actually had a nice chatty conversation. I would not call us friends, but it’s friendlier than cordial. Will I meet him for coffee? No. We are not friends. But I do think he regrets what he did and has, as an ex, done whatever he could to make things better for me within my boundaries. And this took a llllooonnnngggg time to get to.

I think it comes down to how you pick your friends. If it is based on things like shared values and morals, then no. But if you can forgive folks for things like an A and still hang out, then maybe. But I know I took a close look at my friends post-DDAY and stopped being friends with ones who had participated in As. Once I understood the damage they cause- far far more than just a break up — I cannot condone that in any aspect of my life.

I have R'ed with a former betrayer. I have commuted the sentence for her betrayal, not pardoned it. But W's betrayal is in the past, longer ago than many relationships last. If she had continued to betray, I would have as little as possible to do with her - and I'd classify not changing from cheater to good partner as a continued betrayal.

I detect a slight of hand, let's use that slight of hand.

Suppose you wanted to stay friends with an ex-partner who betrayed you. They, too, were your former betrayer (though I've always thought on that quite binary personally, once they have betrayed they are a betrayed - cheated / cheater - alcoholics are always alcoholics even when not drinking etc. etc. Semantics really) . Suppose you had commuted the sentence for their betrayal, not pardoned it. Accepted their betrayal was in the past. Suppose they had worked and became a good friend... but suppose you still couldn't overlook the disgust and didn't want them in your bed. Why is befriending such a no-no, but reconciliation so acceptable to you?

I'm simply not understanding that perspective. Is it because you are choosing to no longer be romantically or sexually intertwined?

All of this is possible; I'm not sure if you're seeing the symmetry.

If you didn't understand why one can R and not want to befriend a betrayer, how come you didn't ask R'd folks who expressed that opinion why/how they came to their position?

I mean... that was kind of the point of my post. It was a call for people to explain the seeming contradiction.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 5:19 PM, Tuesday, July 15th]

I cannot be friends with WXH. Through this journey I have also found other people who I cannot be friends with - people who condoned the actions and lies. So, I divorced them also. They may not realize it, but others recognized and applauded me for it.

I will, however, be well-behaved at any function that finds us in a public setting together. Think wedding, funeral, birth of a grandchild, etc. But there will be no going to the other's residence or private space.

In terms of the contradiction, I can be friends and be reconciled to my WS because I can accept what he did and what he has done since then. If that changes, we won't be friends. I don't believe I could reconcile or be friends with most WS's or former WS's here when I read their stories and how they have acted during and after the affair.

I think I could be friends with a few former WS. For example, I think it's possible I could be friends with sisoon's wife, even if he divorces her. Maybe I can accept things he can't, or I think her change is genuine and he doesn't. It's possible I would not even give a friendship an opportunity though.

Of course, that example isn't the reality of the state their marriage. Hopefully it doesn't offend to use it.

Maybe it's paradoxical or hypocritical, but I don't think I could be friends with NoThanksForTheMemories's WS. If they are in the middle of a divorce and he is asking her to hang out and remain friends, that seems like a continued pattern of values that are wayward or not in sync with mine. He is basically asking for what he wants to benefit him only, without considering how that affects her or their children. Even just asking seems like he doesn't understand the pain and damage he has caused her and the family. That doesn't sound like remorse. Again, hopefully it doesn't offend to use that example.