SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The problem is that blind trust existed, not that it's gone, although it seems that the problem is that it's gone. I believe the biggest loss from being betrayed is the loss of illusions.

I feel I trust my W 100% even while knowing she - or I - could screw up. Blind trust is a burden that shouldn't be dumped on anybody, IMO.

*****

I am still processing whether that reflects a phase or something deeper, so I am observing behaviour now rather than drawing conclusions.

I think that's the best approach - watching actions, not believing to words until they're backed up.

If your H has been honest and loving since he stopped, R seems eminently possible for you, if you want to R. If you want D, or if your WH really isn't remorseful, you can D with your head held high.

*****

IMO, your best goal is to heal. I think you know that. IMO, the you process the anger, grief, fear, and shame out of your body, the more you will heal, and the better your life will be whether you D, R, or gather more info. You're really in charge of your own healing.

Thank you for taking the time to share this sisoon - I really appreciate your perspective.

What you said about observing actions rather than relying on words really stayed with me as that is very much where I am right now.

I am still processing everything and trying not to get too far ahead of myself - so just taking things slowly and staying in observation mode.

Thank you as well for the reminder about focusing on healing - that is something I am holding onto.

I appreciate your support as it does help to hear different perspectives and taking in all the wonderful advice...

Bumped by Request

Thank you Tanner

My DDay anniversary is tomorrow so I wanted to come back to this original thread as this was where I first posted when I joined SI in April and at the time I said I was staying in observation mode and watching actions rather than words. Five months later I think I am clearer about what I have actually been observing...there have been good moments and there have been times where I have seen effort but one of the hardest things for me now is that he does not want the infidelities or affairs spoken about again and I am having to really sit with what that means for healing and for me...the betrayals themselves were many years ago but I only found out a year ago and then more came out later so it has never felt like one clean DDay - every new layer changed something again and made me look back at memories family life holidays birthdays and ordinary days with different eyes.

I am still not rushing myself into any final decision but I am also not in the same place I was when I first wrote this thread...I am clearer about my own needs now and less willing to abandon myself just to keep everything looking normal or comfortable for everyone else. The biggest thing I have learned from SI is that healing cannot really happen on one persons terms only and silence may make things easier for the person who caused the damage but it does not make the impact disappear for the person carrying it and so I am still observing but I think the difference now is that I am not only observing him anymore...I am also observing myself and paying attention to what I can and cannot live with going forward.

Tomorrow will be one year since reality changed and I honestly do not know how I will feel when I wake up but I wanted to come back here because this is where I started and so many of you helped me through those first months...thank you for that.

but I think the difference now is that I am not only observing him anymore...I am also observing myself and paying attention to what I can and cannot live with going forward.

^This is where I am at. New boundaries. Learning how to break the old patterns. After 50 yrs together it's not easy, but I'm slowly coming around and it feels good.

One year is still so very fresh. Take your time.

God bless!

Trumansworld Thank you...

New boundaries. Learning how to break the old patterns.

Yes exactly this...I think that is the part I am only really starting to understand now because for so long I was looking at him and his behaviour and wondering what it meant when actually I also need to look at myself and the patterns I have accepted adapted around or explained away over the years. After 50 years together I can imagine how hard that must be and I really appreciate you sharing that it can slowly start to feel good because that gives me hope that boundaries do not have to feel like loss...they can also feel like coming back to yourself.

One year is still so very fresh. Take your time.

Thank you - I think I needed that reminder today because part of me feels like a year should mean I am further along but emotionally it still feels very recent in so many ways...I am trying to let myself move at the pace I actually need rather than the pace I think I should be at.

From my experience I can tell you the cheater often wants to sweep this under the rug.

I made that mistake.

IMO rugsweeping allows the cheater to cheat again — only it’s easier. They have less guilt. They EXPECT you will take them back if found out again.

Nothing will change unless you change. If you demand the cheater to discuss and they refuse - you have two options. One - accept their demands and they "win". They get exactly what they want.

Or two - you decide that is not going to work. You get your own counseling. You start the 180 to start to emotionally distance yourself from an unreasonable situation where your spouse/partner is stonewalling you.

I can tell you after dday2 of affair2 my H still thought he was running the show. Except he had lost all his power and control over the situation. I changed. I stood up to him. I kicked him to the curb and did the hard 180. I hated doing it but I had to. He left me no choice.

It’s been 13 years and he has changed. He recognizes the disrespect he showed me during his affairs (and after). He regrets all of it.

But none of that happened while he stonewalled me from talking about his affairs.

I hope this helps you.

As wife said, his rugsweeping is disrespect of your boundaries.

He is now comfortable enough in how you were managed that he feels he won’t risk any consequences.

So now butterfly, shut up and don’t trigger my shame, you stayed, hence you accepted to live in infidelity.

I don’t want you to hold me a mirror showing my true self when I am trying so hard to preserve my ego.

Until you catch me again, just suck it up.

That’s what his demands mean.

I read you and I never had the feeling that you are the kind of woman who is cool with living in infidelity.

That’s a clear boundary to me.

And what you describe is a clear statement of where he is at.

Now is up to you. Will you protect your boundary or the cheater’s low self worth and shame?

Is the question you have to answer yourself.

I still think you are the prize girl. He doesn’t sound too hot on the competition to win it back.

Put yourself first.

I. My personal view, your boundaries are more valuable than him.

If the dealbreaker is he doesn’t want to respect your boundaries and desires to maintain the status quo, he has to go.

With a pinch of dark humor:

There’s plenty of men out there who while it just happen they have a dick, they are not being a dick.

He seems prone to chose to be the second incarnation with the disregard of your emotions.

Someone else would clearly see you are the prize.

So does he still bail out from the competition?

His call.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 11:25 AM, Tuesday, September 22nd]

The1stWife Thank you for sharing this because it really does help hearing from someone who has actually lived through this and come out the other side...

Nothing will change unless you change.

I think this is the part that has really landed with me as I spent a long time looking at what he was doing and whether his behaviour was changing when actually I am starting to realise that I also have to change the old patterns in myself - what I accept what I work around and what I stay quiet about just to keep the peace.

But none of that happened while he stonewalled me from talking about his affairs.

This is difficult to read but important because that is exactly the part I am trying to understand now...silence may make things more comfortable on the surface but it does not make the damage disappear and I am starting to see that I cannot heal properly if the subject itself becomes something I am not allowed to bring into the room. Also, I am not at the point of making huge decisions from emotion but I am clearer than I was that I cannot keep abandoning my own needs just because facing them makes somebody else uncomfortable...thank you for being honest about what eventually had to change for you as it gives me a lot to think about.

BackfromtheStorm Thank you brother...I knew you would probably come back and say it plainly and I think I needed that.

Will you protect your boundary or the cheater’s low self worth and shame?

This is really the question underneath all of it and I think I am only now starting to understand that protecting somebody else from discomfort has often meant I end up carrying the discomfort instead...that is the pattern I am trying to break.

I still think you are the prize girl.

Thank you...that actually made me smile because I do not always feel like that but I am starting to remember that my value did not disappear because somebody else failed to protect what they had...I am not willing to live in infidelity or pretend that silence equals healing and I think where I am now is working out what protecting my boundary actually looks like in practice rather than just knowing where it is...I am trying to put myself first more than I ever have before and that is uncomfortable at times but I know I need to keep doing it.

Today has actually been quite trying emotionally and I have even been thinking again about finally getting my tattoo done - something that is just for me and feels like another little piece of reclaiming myself. Your last line made me laugh ...thank you for always being honest with me and for seeing the strength in me even when I am still trying to find it myself.

Good to hear sister.

Since I have no hair on my tongue as we use to say (means having no problem speaking straight), I will also tell you about the tattoo since you brought it up.

And mind, I like the art of body painting in its isolation, is not that I have a pre conception against tattoos per Se.

I deal with trauma therapists for my daughter (at least she gets what I denied myself) and she mentioned about the psychological meaning of tattoos.

It’s a sign of trauma and unexpressed pain, a coping mechanism that instead of allowing the expression of it from the soul, surrogates it’s expressions by a wound on your skin, the interface that metaphorically connects your inside with the outside world, the others.

And by etching it on your skin and receiving external validation for it, you get some soothing fix. Which is temporary and will fade, while the etching stays.

If you wonder why people Often start with a little tattoo then end up inked head to toe, that’s the psychology behind. The trauma is written, but not addressed, the fix fades and you will cope with it more.

That’s a mechanism you might find familiar after discovering here, and it’s a not so distant cousin.

Of course it is not my business and it would be preposterous to tell you "don’t get a tattoo" (also off topic),just consider what is the psychological need behind that is making you desire one.

Hardly something visible on our biggest body organ is truly "a small thin just for me" .

But as a,ways, food for thought, I want people to feel happy with their inner soul, not to nag them, just giving an angle.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 2:45 PM, Tuesday, September 22nd]

Got a better understanding it was dday2 of affair2 when I learned he was still cheating (same OW) while I thought we were reconciling.

Something in me snapped. I knew I could no longer continue to out the marriage (and his needs) first b/c it was killing me mentally, physically, emotionally etc.

I deserved better. My kids deserved a better mom compared to someone who cried (in private) every day.

My very very brief "conversation" went like this: I am D you. I’m sorry it had to come to this but you leave me no choice. I have nothing left to give to you or this marriage. You are now free to go and be with the OW or anyone else you choose.

I was very calm. No yelling. No cursing. No throwing things. Eerily calm and controlled.

And I left the room. Next day I did the very hard 180. He probably thought I would "calm down in a day or two". Then I told him he had to leave. He refused. I picked up the phone in front of him and made a call for him to go to a friend’s home and then find a place to stay.

That’s when he realized I was a force to be reckoned with and I was not backing down.

He begged to R. I told him he could do whatever he wanted but I was not helping him in any way. And I didn’t. I wasn’t his support team any longer. I did it for 9 months during his affair and my reward was for him to continue cheating.

Good news he proved himself enough in first 30 days that I did not file D paperwork. It took 3 years before I felt like I could believe he wasn’t going anywhere. That was a "me" thing — I was protecting myself against more pain etc.

If I had not become the badass I needed to be, then I would have rugswept it all like I did after the first affair. And I learned (thanks to SI) what a big mistake that was.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:16 PM, Tuesday, September 22nd]

My very very brief "conversation" went like this: I am D you. I’m sorry it had to come to this but you leave me no choice. I have nothing left to give to you or this marriage. You are now free to go and be with the OW or anyone else you choose.

I was very calm. No yelling. No cursing. No throwing things. Eerily calm and controlled.

And I left the room. Next day I did the very hard 180. He probably thought I would "calm down in a day or two". Then I told him he had to leave. He refused. I picked up the phone in front of him and made a call for him to go to a friend’s home and then find a place to stay.

That’s when he realized I was a force to be reckoned with and I was not backing down.

He begged to R. I told him he could do whatever he wanted but I was not helping him in any way. And I didn’t. I wasn’t his support team any longer. I did it for 9 months during his affair and my reward was for him to continue cheating. mad

Good news he proved himself enough in first 30 days that I did not file D paperwork. It took 3 years before I felt like I could believe he wasn’t going anywhere. That was a "me" thing — I was protecting myself against more pain etc.

This is so close to what I did, except I only lasted through a month of my wife trying to continue having her affair. She had stopped the physical part of it, but was doing everything she could to keep the emotional part of it alive. She fought me on no contact.

Once I made those phone calls everything changed, he suddenly became the enemy, and she was willing to do anything to prevent me from leaving. Once that was a real possibility her affair became a non priority fast.

Another difference is that I'm only about 16 months removed from making phone calls to lawyers in front of her and my nervous system is still not completely settled. I'm still prone to rumination and some awful mental images and scenes that play in my mind. We're having more good days, but I still find myself in a funk here and there.

My d day and the month that followed was pretty brutal. I finally put a condensed version of that story in my profile if you're curious. Typing it up was painful, but it really put into perspective for me what all I had to endure, and what it took for me to finally decide I'd had enough. I'm still working through a lot of that. Finding out about the affair was bad enough, but her words and actions made things quite a bit worse.

But yeah, her changes after I had that calm conversation and made those calls have been pretty dramatic, and she's been very consistent over the last almost a year and a half now. I'm just still waiting for my nervous system to calm down and learning how and if he I can live with it. We talk often and openly about it. She's not running or trying to hide from what she did. If I'm feeling something I bring it up and we talk it out. Same in reverse. We're both much better at communicating now.

Pogre - it took me a full year before I had some feeling of things calming down and returning to "normal".

I woke up every day for the first year and my first thoughts were "I cannot do this. I need to D him".

I spent a full year fighting my gut instinct to D him. And I think it was more fear than the fact he wasn’t doing enough to make amends(which he was).

But we are very happily reconciled and I’m glad we were lucky enough to recover from it.

Hang in there. You have made some tremendous progress. The fact you can communicate to her is probably the most significant aspect of the process.