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The timeline was a dealbreaker for me. It was for me but also so she would have to really examine what she did, how she acted, the lies she told, the gaslighting she did and on and on. It was too difficult for her. Too painful.

An old saying on SI and elsewhere is "trust your gut". My heart and/or head overrode my gut. Then there is the gaslighting. denial. willful blindness (a book title by Margaret Heffernan and very good), love bias and it's hard to comprehend when it isn't in your DNA.

Actions speak louder than words. He bought the book. Wow. What a gesture. What about putting it into action if you truly want to reconcile.

Another good book is "Cheating in a Nutshell" by Wayne and Tamara Mitchell.

There's also the possibility that you will get an incomplete and/or false timeline. Mine flat out lied about part of the timeline, and then retracted it months later after group therapy finally convinced him that he needed to come 100% clean. Even then, he confessed all the stuff that *he* thought was bad, some of which was trivial to me. I wondered what he thought was trivial that might have been important to me (a lot can happen over 3 years), but I will never know.

To steadychevy's point about actions over words, his actions are showing you who he is. You're seeing him clearly for the first time, not through the haze of love. It's remarkable what that shift in perspective reveals about the people we chose to marry, and there's no unseeing it.

Also, that feeling of not knowing what's real? I very much had that, and continue to have it, even after starting divorce proceedings. This is what betrayal trauma does, and it's not easy to recover from it. I hope you're working with a good therapist, too.

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 10:41 PM, Thursday, May 7th]

hcg1553,

I agree 100% that a thoroughly thought out and researched timeline would be/was necessary for me to reconcile; for the reasons you stated like facing the truth and willingness to own up to the actions, and also not having any secrets with someone else in your marriage.

It's often said here that for reconciliation to work a BS must openly state their needs, then observe their WS. I'm wondering if maybe it's equally important how we phrase all of that to the WS, both before and during reconciliation. If a BS tells their WS that they "need a complete timeline to heal", or something similar, I wonder how a WS interprets that. Do they maybe take that as a position of dependence or weakness? Do they perversely hold out on giving it because they view it (consciously or subconsciously) as a continued attachment that's gone once it's out there? It seems a detached and less open or needy attitude is more helpful in certain phases of all this, or maybe just precise words. Even in reconciliation, what does a WS actually hear if you say "I need... (a hug, you to talk about this, etc.)"?

Kitchen5551 with regards to framing requests I agree with you. My advice to anyone just starting this process is to state what you require to keep standing, to begin to heal and say no more. My role naturally in my marriage was always the consoler and the fixer and that dynamic still came out subconsciously when he returned, despite me thinking I was being strong. It's led to months of being pulled into his emotional mess and his needs and it's only since he feels he is coming out the other side I've realised hang on what about me? I'm in a worse state that when you came back from the drip feed of truths. I think you're right in that if they think you need something from them, the truth, consolation, they have something to work with to deflect or distract instead of just bringing the honesty BS deserves. Well it feels that way in my case.

As for timelines and truth I have a fairly solid line documented on my side of what I went through. Thank the lord I followed friends advice at the time and did it shortly after it happened. Plus his mistress has given details of some of the hotels. If his version varies wildly from what I know then that is telling in itself.

NoThanksForTheMemories - apologies I just realised I replied about the timelines to someone else 😂 But yes I'm fully expecting minimisation. I guess this in as much about truth as observing his actions.

As for therapy I'm starting with a new one specialising in trauma just for some practical ways to break the thoughts. Which are endless. For example if the affair was not a reflection on me but WS, and was about the WS's state of mind etc well what parts of our marriage was a reflection of me and about me? Did I have no influence or impact on him at all as a person? Did I mean so little that my voice on the phone while he checked into the hotel with her sparked nothing? And if you manage to get through that thought there was nothing I could have done to stop that moment well what is this marriage then? Was it always paper thin and I just didn't get the memo? The affair rewrites everything.

Steadychevy - thanks for the book recommendation. It looks excellent! It's on its way in the post.

Your H is trying his best to sweep this shine thing under the rug. He just wants to "move on" which is a fairly typical cheater move.

Please do not let him sweep this under the rug. If he avoids facing this issue then he will most likely manipulate you in any way he can.

My experience is that my H’s first affair was a 4 year emotional affair in the 90s, before cell phones and texts. I knew it was going on but he denied it, gaslit and stonewalled me. When it finally ended it was completely swept under the rug.

For that reason I believer it made it easier for him to cheat again. And during than affair he was kicking me to the curb. After dday2 of affair 2 I no longer allowed him to control anything and manipulate me.

My recommendation is that you don’t let him squirm out of giving you what you need. Especially if you think you will reconcile.

The cheater likes to think they are in control of R and the betrayed and can dictate as to "how it’s going to be". My H tried that too. In about 3 minutes he realized he had been stripped of any say in anything and it was either my way or the highway.

We now have a very different marriage in some respects. And my H knows there are no more chances.

I hope this helps you.

I was honest in a dishonest situation and I acted properly within the confines of the information he had to lie to give me.

Thank you hcg1553 that is such an important way of putting it because so much of the damage comes from suddenly looking back at everything through a completely different lens and questioning what was real. I am still in the process of making sense of some of this myselfand that reminder that we acted properly within the information we were given genuinely helps. Thank you again.

IMO, we need to distinguish between statements of what one wants and requests for what one wants.

A statement asks for nothing. The want just hangs out there waiting for someone to pick it up or not. One doesn't even have to respond to a statement. It can be very satisfying to ignore someone's statement and watch them wait forever for someone to give them what they stated they want.

A request asks for action, especially if it's coupled with asking one's WS if they're willing to satisfy the request. If you want or think you may want R, my reco is to make requests. If your WS satisfies the requests, R is possible. If your WH doesn't meet your requirements, D is probably your better choice.

My reco is to ask for what you want. The action that follows the request tells a lot about how likely R will work well, and the sooner one knows that, the better, IMO.

To sisson's point, I want to add that it helps to state both your request and what will happen if your request isn't fulfilled in concrete terms (and I think this helps the BS, too). Without the consequence, it's not a boundary, it's a wish.

Something like: "I need a timeline from you by the end of the month. If I don't receive one, I will lose my interest in reconciliation."

Modern therapy teaches us the "When you do X, I feel Y" construction of statements for communicating our feelings, and it also teaches us "I need X. Otherwise, I will feel/do Y" for setting boundaries. That transforms what could be a dependency or threat ("If you do X, I'm going to do Y") into something that's entirely within the speaker's agency.

I made this mistake a lot in the early months of R. I expressed what I needed, but I failed to say what would happen if those needs weren't met, especially if they weren't met within a reasonable timeframe. I also tried asking for STBXW to do certain things, which put too much power into his hands.

Eventually I stated my needs better, so when they weren't met, I felt exactly as I said I would, and I took the actions I told myself (and him) that I would.

Sisoon and NoThanksForTheMemories - thank you. You both raise good points.

In speaking to him about the timeline it seems he has not started or has any plans to as it is difficult to face. I've even offered to share some of his mistress's messages to me to help remind him but he's refused. Apparently it's very painful. Yes I know - I read them in real time. I was there. It's very painful seeing your marriage through the AP lens.

So after reading your advice I know I will have to give a " if x doesn't happen then y will " otherwise it could be months. Or deflection of " no I haven't started but look I'm starting to mow the lawn again " etc.

I am often at a loss to understand WHY the cheater refuses therapy, refuses to discuss the affair(s), won’t provide a timeline and doesn’t do everything possible to make amends.

Especially those cheaters who don’t want to D. Or say they don’t want a D.

This doesn’t include the cheaters who are not interested in R.

I recognize the shame or pain or embarrassment it may cause. But if it helps the betrayed to heal — why not just buckle down and commit to getting things done? Avoidance only makes matters worse IMO.

I often say it’s not the affair that kills the marriage or relationship it’s the behavior after the affair that does.

The1stWife - I'm at a slight loss too. He breaks down when I suggest divorce. Ten days since saying I need a timeline to stop the trickle truths for my own healing and he still hasn't started. Has withdrawn himself like he used to during disagreements until eventually I'd fold and give in to what he wants, and feel he is trying the same tactic even if it's possibly unconscious.

I guessing at reasons. Yes shame and inability to admit what they've done. I wonder in my case if it's stalling because of loss of control of the narrative, or control of the situation. Or trying to control the situation by delaying the information. True remorse or wanting to help me feels very low on the list.